Self-Worth and the Power of Understanding Our Needs with Sonya Feher

Welcome back to another episode of “She Owns”! I’m your host, Amanda Krill, and today we have a special guest joining us – the incredible Sonya Feher. In this episode, we dive deep into the concept of self-worth and understanding our needs to prevent inner conflicts. Sonya shares her own journey of accepting herself and overcoming challenges, all while navigating relationships and personal growth. From embracing mistakes to finding power in vulnerability, we explore the importance of authenticity and self-compassion.

Join us as we unravel the myths of progress, discuss the power of community, and navigate the complexities of personal and professional relationships. Whether you’re facing uncertainty, searching for self-assurance, or simply seeking connection, Sonya’s insights and experiences will undoubtedly resonate with you. So grab a cup of coffee, get cozy, and get ready to discover the power of owning your story on this inspiring episode of “She Owns”.

Sonya teaches women how to organize their lives and be happier. In over 25 years as an educator, she’s taught organizing, happiness, business development, English, writing, parenting, mindfulness, and more. No matter the subject, she teaches people how to keep what serves them and let go of the rest so they can have the lives they want.

The Transcripts

Amanda Krill [00:00:04]:

Hey there. This is Amanda from She Owns and you’re listening to the She Owns podcast, the show that helps you own your past, your present and your future for people who want to live their lives in a more intentional way. Today we’re talking about Self worth with Sonia Sahar on how getting to know what we need can keep us from having to fight with our guts and how to learn to accept ourselves for who we are rather than who we wish we were so we can own our self worth. Thank you so much for joining me today. I know we just had a little pre record conversation about a whole lot of things. And, you know, my whole story now, it’s not everybody does, but I’ve made a lot of mistakes in the last several years. That well, that’s one thing that I want to talk about in this program that I’m doing. And here in this conversation is that the things that seem like big mistakes at the moment, but actually alter your trajectory and move you into a place that you never thought possible, especially within relationships where you didn’t think that it was possible for those you didn’t think it was possible for those to be different or better.

Amanda Krill [00:01:17]:

But after this mistake that you make, things are different and better, but you are different. And how do you find yourself again and your self worth within this change? And there’s shame and there’s mistakes and there’s all of these things. So anyway, yeah, let’s chat.

Sonya Feher [00:01:41]:

Well, and terror, right? Like fear. I don’t know what is going to happen and our ideas of what was supposed to happen that don’t I think that piece of it in my meditation group. I’m on a morning meditation group every day. And today we were talking about the myth of Sisyphus from a Buddhist perspective, which was a trip, right? We’re told that this is like this punishment from the gods that he’s got to roll the rock up the mountain and then it rolls back down again. But if we look at our lives at kind of the Sisyphean task of dishes or laundry or getting up in the morning and being a human and going to bed at night, it never ends. We’re always rolling the boulder up the mountain and then it rolls back down. And the problem is not that it rolls back down, but that we think it’s supposed to do anything else, that we’re supposed to be able to make this big progress and keep progressing and that it all is supposed to look good and feel good and whatever. That’s not how it works for my life.

Sonya Feher [00:02:47]:

The places that from the outside look probably the most disastrous are the places where I’ve grown the most and if I could own who I was or what I wanted or what I did seemingly wrong that ended up being for my best, highest plan. The story that we’re telling ourselves about how we know how it’s supposed to turn out is fiction. We don’t know how it’s supposed to turn out.

Amanda Krill [00:03:20]:

Right. Yeah, you just got me there. That is so powerful. Oh, my gosh. And just recognizing that, that you don’t know how it’s supposed even when you make the best plan and you have this goal and you think you have it all laid out and it makes you feel secure, but never goes that way. It never goes that way. And often it goes better than you planned and sometimes worse, but sometimes that forces you to pivot. It’s all just that beautiful journey of getting to where you need to go even.

Amanda Krill [00:03:54]:

And half the time you don’t even know where you need to go at all.

Sonya Feher [00:03:58]:

It’s really interesting. So you know this because we talked about it at the beginning of COVID I think, but I have a group on Facebook called Women Learning How to Be Happy. And in the last week, I post a question of the day every day, and I post gratitude prompts every day. And in the last week, I posted two questions that I hadn’t consciously made really be back to back, but one of them was about a major kind of setback or problem that you’d had in your life and how you’d overcome it. And the other one was the most embarrassing moment in childhood. And those two questions have gotten bigger responses than a whole lot of questions, like just the discussion. And this is a group for women learning how to be happier. Right? So the sharing that happens there because people are willing to be vulnerable in the community.

Sonya Feher [00:04:56]:

They’re willing to not have to preserve some idea of what they’re supposed to look like or be like, but to say, like, yeah, this was horrible and everything fell apart. And then to be able to commiserate with each other or to go, oh yeah, me too, I did that too. And so that piece of it, whether we’re empty nesters are about to be like you and I are talking about, or business, women, where the business maybe doesn’t go in the direction it might go, or marriage, divorce by this age, part of what’s? So I was thinking this weekend I’m 52. I’m about to be 53. I’m going to live a long time, I think, right? So I probably have at least 30 more years. That’s a lot of time. And I think we get to this age and there’s this notion that we’re supposed to, at midlife, be starting to settle in. And my experience is not that my experience is, oh no, I just get to know myself better and better.

Sonya Feher [00:06:04]:

And as I get to know myself, I get to know what my strengths are. I get to know what I need to work on or want to work on still. And the next 30 years, compared to the past 30 years, my life just gets better the older I get because of that right? There’s not the kind of insecurity of being a teenager or just starting out and trying to make things happen of 20s or whatever. It’s like, oh, no. I know who I am. I know what I can do, and I know that I can rise to a challenge, which is amazing, because all of I don’t know about you, but all of that time growing up, it wasn’t that I was putting on a false face necessarily because I don’t like the fake it till you make it mentality at all. But there was just constant fear and insecurity of doing it wrong or what was going to happen. And now there’s a level of like, oh, I don’t know what’s going to happen.

Sonya Feher [00:07:14]:

And I’m okay with that because I do know that I’m capable of doing whatever the next right thing is and not having to project out what’s going to happen five years from now. I don’t know that. But I can do now that’s one.

Amanda Krill [00:07:29]:

Of the things I’ve really learned over the last year and a half is that I’m not going to do the right thing every time, but I can recover from it and keep moving forward. We’re resilient. And when we get stuck and beat ourselves up over the things that we’ve done, I think that’s really the problem, not the mistake itself. It’s like, you can keep going. You can do this. And I think that helps build your self worth back up after you knock yourself down with the mistake. But life is hard, and we’re all doing this, and we all no idea what we’re actually doing. And I think if we all understood that more and gave that grace to other people more well, and that piece.

Sonya Feher [00:08:20]:

That other people piece, right? Because it’s not just that we have an idea about how things are supposed to go, but we have an idea about what other people are supposed to do or how what they’re doing is messing it up for the rest of us or whatever. And I think certainly in the political landscape, in the economy, in the way the pandemic was handled, there’s been so much of well out there is so messed up. How am I even going to function right now with interest rates and whatever? There is a level of just powerlessness and hopelessness, I think. I don’t know what I find so heartening is when I can stop and go, all right, what can I do? Like, I can’t change anybody else. I can’t get you to do any differently, or my kid or my ex husband or whatever, but I can do it. And if I’m not being able to do it, then I can look at myself and go, all right, what’s standing in my way? Why can’t I do the thing that I want to do? Or is it that I don’t really even want it right but that piece that taking control of our own agency and being able to just do our part, do what we want to do is so powerful because then I’m not reliant on whether you change or he does or blah blah blah. It’s just me. Which can feel also scary and like a lot of pressure.

Sonya Feher [00:09:58]:

But it’s where the power is.

Amanda Krill [00:10:01]:

You’re the only one who can control you like you can’t control other people. You can’t make their choices for them. All you can do is worry about yourself. And that is scary and amazing at the same time.

Sonya Feher [00:10:13]:

Yeah, powerful. It’s powerful.

Amanda Krill [00:10:16]:

Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. How do you think that how was I going to say this? I just thought of it and based on what you said, how do you deal with the fact that you can’t control how other people respond to you or view you or how do you not let that affect your self worth?

Sonya Feher [00:10:36]:

Oh, that’s a great question. Well, so one of the things that I did during my divorce is I started going to Twelve Step Recovery group for friends and family of alcoholics and addicts. And in those groups, instead of talking about being powerless over alcohol or powerless over drugs or food or whatever, they talk about how you’re powerless over people, places and things. And so all of it is about how in a relationship with somebody else, the dance can only keep happening if you keep doing the same steps. And so when you start doing different steps or when you leave the dance floor, something’s got to change. And that piece of it they also talk in that group a lot about how other people’s opinion of you is none of your business. Which is a hard thing to get around when we’re in business. Right, because you want people to buy your stuff, you want them to think you’re up, you want them to think you’ve got it together so that they have confidence to work with you.

Sonya Feher [00:11:48]:

But I found like with my organizing and my coaching clients, what gives people confidence is that they can trust me to be honest and authentic. And so I’m not that piece of how do you worry about what other people think about you? Well, you know what? If you don’t like who I am then I would way rather not be working with you or in relationship or friendship with you or any of that than to keep hanging out and feel like I have to pretend all the time.

Amanda Krill [00:12:20]:


Sonya Feher [00:12:21]:

Because if you’re pretending all the time then there’s fear that you’re going to be caught.

Amanda Krill [00:12:25]:

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Sonya Feher [00:12:28]:

And so for me it’s no, I’m going to just be who I am. And usually what happens luckily is that that deepens the conversation that makes it even the relationship even better or it makes people want to work with me or be friends with me or whatever because I’m no BS. I’m not pretending anything, which means then I can be vulnerable. And if you can be vulnerable, then that means somebody else can be vulnerable too, because they can trust you with know, if you look like you’ve got it all together, who’s going to be vulnerable? Who’s going to really show that maybe I don’t have it together because then we go know, shame and hiding and all that. The stuff that Brene Brown talks about how shame hides in the dark and the way that we move through shame is that we talk to each other, right?

Amanda Krill [00:13:25]:

Yeah, I really needed to hear that right in this moment. Genuinely. I know for me personally, with the stuff that has gone on in the last few years in my life, I feel like I had this conversation earlier with somebody else about I’m self assured, wholly self assured. I have no doubts about myself, my decision making, all of that, but I doubt my self worth in what I’m offering in my programs and whatnot why would anybody sign up for this? But I think that a lot of the reasons why I struggle with that is because I’m trying to make too many people happy and trying to be what everybody wants me to be. And that’s just not the right thing. And I also talked about the other two people I interviewed about this. I saw a quote on Instagram and this lady said that somebody told her she was intimidating, which I get all the time, like literally all the time, and it always bothers me and I’m like, what am I doing? And I tend to confront them and I try to do it nicely, but I’m like, what about me is intimidating? Which makes it all worse. Like, that just makes it worse.

Amanda Krill [00:14:45]:

But her friend who was there with her said to the person who said it to her, is she intimidating or are you intimidated? And that made her shift, the way she’s thinking about it. And again, that’s exactly what I needed to hear, is like, yeah, there are people who find me intimidating, but those are not the people that need me. Those are not the people that will ever get anything out of me or working with me. They’re just not the fit. And that has to be kind of a test for who is the right fit. Like the people who aren’t intimidated by me and who feel empowered by being around me are the people that I need to work with, not the people.

Sonya Feher [00:15:25]:

Who are intimidated by personality is so energizing. Right? But if somebody is scared by that energy I had somebody give me the advice, I will clean up the language that they used with me. But when I first started my business, what they said is like, if you’re going to be your own boss, don’t be a jerk boss. And what they meant by that was, don’t work with people that you don’t want to work with doing work you don’t want to do on a schedule or being paid in a way that you don’t want. And so often we’re taught to work from a place of scarcity. Right? I’ve just got to take any clients I can get. I’ve got to do any project because I need to pay the bills, I need to do all of that. And the advice they gave on that is like, if you fill up your schedule with that kind of work, you don’t have time for your ideal client to come in.

Sonya Feher [00:16:19]:

You don’t have the opportunity to do your ideal work. You don’t make the money that you could have because you’re competing to be the cheapest or to do whatever. If people call and they want to work with me, they hear very clearly, I’ve got a waiting list, or I only work in this part of town, or if it’s not the kind of work I do, I’ve got a referral for you for somebody else. But it was scary to do that. But it also that piece of self worth of, like, getting to work with me is special. I do something very specific and I really want to fully be present for the people that I’m working with. And if I’m running around doing a whole bunch of stuff, I’m not going to be able to give my ideal client my full self. Right.

Sonya Feher [00:17:11]:

And so that self worth of like, no, I do have something to offer. I think in this economy, it’s being pretty hard. Right?

Amanda Krill [00:17:19]:

Yeah, definitely.

Sonya Feher [00:17:20]:

There’s just this fear of people don’t have money or they’re watching how they’re spending their money, or they’re doing it differently, or they’re waiting to see what happens. And it’s hard to not take that personally. They just don’t want my thing or I’m bad or I didn’t do it right or whatever. As opposed to they have this thing going on, just like you’re talking about of are you intimidating or are they intimidated? Splitting out what is somebody else’s versus what is ours is important. Absolutely.

Amanda Krill [00:17:55]:

And that actually made me think of a time where I valued my own work and my self worth so little that I was doing jobs just for the money. And it makes you feel like shit, like, genuinely makes you feel awful that you are putting up with people who are not your ideal client. And this was when I was doing like, web design type stuff. And I had a client who she was a nightmare. She was an absolute nightmare of that. Every time she texted me, if I replied, then I would get 1000 texts back over nonsense. Just absolutely nothing. And it made me just clam up.

Amanda Krill [00:18:34]:

And I did not want to deal with her, so I would hurry up and do her stuff and move on and just like, one word text.

Sonya Feher [00:18:40]:

It was awful.

Amanda Krill [00:18:41]:

It was really bad. But I needed that money so badly. I thought I needed that money because I didn’t value my work and myself enough to be like, this is just dragging me down. And finally I got to the point that I was like, I cannot do that. It was for $300 a month. $300 a month was all she was paying me. She wouldn’t pay me any more than that. And I was like, without this $300, this is not going to get paid.

Amanda Krill [00:19:12]:

I have to keep doing this. So I did it for, like, six months, and then finally I was like, all right, I’m ending this. I can’t do this anymore. So I texted her, and I said, I am done at the end of this month. You’re going to have to find somebody else. I cannot do this anymore. I just don’t have time for it. And I did it politely.

Amanda Krill [00:19:29]:

I wasn’t a jerk or anything, but I thought in my head that I needed this. And it was like I just did not value my time or anything else. And the very next month, the month after I stopped working with her, I had my best month I’d had in 15 years. So, I mean, like, a really good month, new clients that came out of nowhere that I’d never heard of before, and all of a sudden, I had way more than that $300 that I thought I needed so badly from her. And it was all just from I feel like it was really centered on I finally wasn’t willing to not value that myself and my work and my time any longer. And when I finally claimed that, it was like, everything is great again.

Sonya Feher [00:20:20]:

Well, and I think not just our work, right? Our personal lives, too.

Amanda Krill [00:20:24]:


Sonya Feher [00:20:25]:

We stay in relationships because we’re scared. I’ve been doing the Internet dating thing for almost two years now, and it’s been really interesting because it’s taught me that there are things I want I didn’t know, things that I didn’t want that I didn’t realize were red flags or deal breakers for me or whatever. But the whole piece of it that’s been really surprising is when I was in romantic relationships earlier in my life, before my 16 year relationship and divorce and whatever, if something didn’t work out, I always took it so personally. Right? It was about my worthiness and my lovability. And I think it doesn’t matter if it’s romance or work or friendship or whatever, if we’re walking around looking for other people to validate us. And you not wanting to be with me is because of me, not because of you. We’ve got a real problem, and it’s been shocking. I’ve done all of this big work studying positive psychology and personal development and getting a coaching certification and doing all this stuff over the 13 years since my divorce.

Sonya Feher [00:21:39]:

And what’s happened with dating, I would not have predicted. When something isn’t a match, it’s like, oh, it’s not a match. I don’t take it personally at all. It’s not, oh, I should lose ten pounds, which, as women, we do to ourselves so much, or, oh, I’m too pushy and I’m too talkative and I’m too powerful and they were intimidated or whatever. No, it’s not any of that. It’s the right person, whether it’s a client or a partner or whatever, they’re going to love who I am. They’re going to love me for me. And being able to stand in that kind of worthiness of, oh, no, this isn’t that I’m not lovable or worthy.

Sonya Feher [00:22:22]:

It’s that you don’t want what I’ve got or I don’t want what you’ve got. It’s not personal.

Amanda Krill [00:22:28]:

It doesn’t make either of you bad or unlovable by somebody else. It’s just we don’t match. And that’s okay. It’s okay for us to not match.

Sonya Feher [00:22:38]:

Right? When I started dating or when I started thinking about what I wanted to do for a living, grew up or started my business or any of that, that piece of, no, you’re not supposed to match with everybody. We’re supposed to find our people that love who we are and how we do it. And if we’re too busy trying to be something else, those people can’t find us because they don’t get to see who we really are.

Amanda Krill [00:23:11]:

Right? Yeah, absolutely. When we’re just pretending to be what we think everybody wants, eventually they get to know us, and that’s not who we are. And it’s like, oh, this is not what I signed up for.

Sonya Feher [00:23:25]:

Or they get to know us and go, oh, man, I didn’t know how cool you were because you were looking so together, you were looking so put together, or I thought you were this or that, I don’t know. Incredible trust and confidence that it takes to just show up as you are and go, take it or leave it. It’s both scary and so validating.

Amanda Krill [00:23:53]:


Sonya Feher [00:23:54]:

Fulfilling when somebody can see who you actually are and go, I love that, man. Oh, yeah, I want to hire you. You’re the one, not this other person over there.

Amanda Krill [00:24:07]:

It’d be really cool if we could figure this out when we were, like, 20 instead of waiting 15.

Sonya Feher [00:24:14]:

Man, those guys that I dated in high school, like, all of that competition with friends and feeling not good enough or skinny enough or popular or tall or whatever we do to ourselves all along the way. And I think we’re taught to do that. We’re taught to compete with each other, and we’re taught to compare as opposed to going, I’m comparing myself to myself. And what that piece for me? Working with my clients and with myself, because it all starts with me, right?

Amanda Krill [00:24:47]:


Sonya Feher [00:24:48]:

Being an organizer that has Add that’s a creative right. Or being a coach who’s had a nervous breakdown and struggled with suicidal depression and generalized anxiety disorder and whatever, I’m coming into my work knowing what problems people have not being somebody that always had it all together and can say, just do this. Right?

Amanda Krill [00:25:12]:


Sonya Feher [00:25:12]:

Just do this. Man is so thoughtless. It’s so blind. We don’t people and so being able to come at it from, oh, no, I’ve struggled with this too, and this is how I’ve found a way through, I find, to be much more helpful. Those are the people that I look to help me too.

Amanda Krill [00:25:34]:

And I mean, that’s exactly where I’m coming I just told you this, but this is where I’m coming from in this current project is my life fell apart. I blew it up and had to spend 18 months trying to reconfigure and figure out exactly what I wanted from life, because I’m no longer interested in doing what everybody thinks I should do. I’m no longer interested in that, and it’s time to just figure out who I am. And that’s why I’m doing this, because I want other people to figure out who they are too, and not have.

Sonya Feher [00:26:07]:

To blow up their legs to do it. I like that plan. That’s a worthwhile mission, it sounds like.

Amanda Krill [00:26:16]:

Yeah. So when it comes to self worth, what is your best tip for somebody to really some people believe in affirmations. Some people believe the last person I talked to is she believes that it’s a collective thing. Like, you need to have community around you of people who support you and you support them and that kind of thing. What do you think is the key to your self worth?

Sonya Feher [00:26:44]:

So I think affirmations can feel like lies like, that we’re telling ourselves something that we wish was true. They can also be really powerful if it’s something that we believe and that resonates with us. Community can be really powerful when we’re surrounded by strong people that love us and make us stronger. But my experience is that in those places where we are alone, which we always are, even when we’re with other people, we’re in our heads, we’re in our bodies. For me, the self worth piece is about accepting who I really am, not who I wish I was. And it doesn’t mean there’s another kind of Buddhist saying of, like, you’re perfect as you are and now change. Right. So it’s not accepting who I am or how I am is not that.

Sonya Feher [00:27:45]:

That just means I’m doing it right, and I’ve got to keep doing it right. But if I look at myself and go, oh, I wish that I were doing this thing and I’m not able to do it, if I can accept who I am and not have to put anything on or have anybody else help me with it, I can work with that. I can go, all right, what’s the obstacle? Why am I not doing the thing that I think I want to do? Or why do I feel bad about that or whatever? And so that piece of what we were talking about earlier. How can I control what I do as opposed to trying to get anybody else to do it was the life changing kind of shift. The pivot for me was not continuing to look at my family, my husband, my friends, anybody, and go, if you would just or you’re not giving me what I need if I can be with myself and look in the mirror and even if I’m thinking, if you would just you know what? I’m the only one that can just do it.

Amanda Krill [00:28:52]:

Right. Absolutely. I think that a lot of people struggle with that. Being alone and being with yourself and being with your own thoughts and yeah, if you can just accept yourself for who you are and just be willing to change when you see something that you don’t like. We’re not static creatures. We are always growing and changing. And I said this in another interview don’t beat yourself up over the things that you have messed up with. You know better now, do better now.

Sonya Feher [00:29:25]:

Or get support from people that can help you do better too.

Amanda Krill [00:29:29]:

Yeah, right.

Sonya Feher [00:29:31]:

But being alone doesn’t mean that we don’t get to have our community or that we don’t right, absolutely. Of whatever sort. But that piece of it, of going, all right, I can’t do this on my own. Somebody else knows how to do this better and they could help me, or somebody else can listen. And if I’m talking, they will listen me into my own wisdom. Have you ever found yourself, you’re in a conversation with somebody and you’re saying something that you didn’t even realize you knew or believed? You say it out loud and you’re like, oh, right, that’s it. Sometimes it’s just being able to talk to somebody else that really can hear us so we can hear ourselves.

Amanda Krill [00:30:17]:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that it is really hard to be a person these days and we have these ideals of what it should be like or we should be like. And it’s always that we’re perfect and that is just never the case. And I think we let our self worth take a hit every time we do something less than ideal, every time.

Sonya Feher [00:30:44]:

We do something human.

Amanda Krill [00:30:46]:


Sonya Feher [00:30:47]:

Human. That’s the piece. And so that part when my kid was really little, they spilled on the carpet. They were toddler, we were in the living room and they knocked something over. And my dad was somebody who it was a really big deal in our house if we built right and you would feel great shame. You were totally thoughtless and you weren’t paying attention and all of stuff. And so all those voices came into my head when my kid knocked the thing over. And I did not want to say any of that stuff out loud.

Sonya Feher [00:31:23]:

Right. And so what I said instead was we all spill sometimes and then followed it up with probably if there’s a cup on the carpet. We could put a top on it, or we could just not put cups on the carpet. We could put them up on the coffee table and then we don’t have to worry about knocking them over or whatever. And people talk about talking to your inner child, and I could never do that. It all felt really cheesy to me. But when I started talking to myself the way that I talked to somebody that I really love yes. Talking to my kid and recognizing like, oh, what if when I something or I make a mistake, I could say, man, I thought that was going to go differently, or, I’ve never done that before.

Sonya Feher [00:32:11]:

Now I know how to do it next time. Right. That piece, for me, was the big crossroads of, oh, now I get to be human, and getting to be human, and it not being some shame spiral that knocks down all of the dominoes of any piece of worthiness I had. But is just like, oh, yeah, we all make mistakes sometimes. We all spill sometimes. Was like, that’s it. And so when I’m saying being alone, that voice in our head how we talk to ourselves, I think is key.

Amanda Krill [00:32:51]:

Yeah, absolutely. I actually said this to somebody just this morning. And not that my sons don’t matter, because they do. I love my two sons. But my daughter, I understand her experience of the world better because we are the same. It’s my daughter and we’re very similar. And it was at a point when I realized that something that I was thinking about myself was something that I would never want or said even out loud to myself. It’s something that I would never want her to think about herself or say to herself.

Amanda Krill [00:33:23]:

And then I was like, you’re really modeling how to speak to yourself to her, and if you don’t stop doing that, that’s how she’s going to think too. So you really have to don’t beat yourself up over these things that you mess up, because it’s just being alive. It’s just the way it is. And I don’t want her to feel like an idiot because she knocked over, spilled something. It’s so inconsequential. But yet we do beat ourselves up over these things. And even if I don’t say it out loud, I’m thinking it. So that helped me shift a lot.

Amanda Krill [00:34:02]:

Just how would I want my daughter to speak to herself? Or how would I want somebody else to speak to my daughter? And I’m not talking to myself like that anymore, period.

Sonya Feher [00:34:13]:

It’s huge. Yeah, well, and I think that’s self worth right there.

Amanda Krill [00:34:18]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sonya Feher [00:34:21]:

How am I worth being talked to? And what is my level of worthiness? And I don’t have to keep looking for somebody else to give it to me.

Amanda Krill [00:34:29]:

Yeah, absolutely. Just the other day, I dropped something. It was in the kitchen, so it was easy to clean up. But I called myself a dumb shit because I dropped something, and I was just like, you dumb shit. And then I was like, Wait a minute. I would murder somebody who said that to my child. Murder them. So why am I saying that to myself? That’s really messed up.

Sonya Feher [00:34:54]:

Don’t talk to me. And if somebody else had called you that too?

Amanda Krill [00:34:57]:

Yeah, I would.

Sonya Feher [00:34:59]:

No way. You can’t talk to me like that. But that when we can start hearing how we are speaking to ourselves or start feeling. One of the tools that I’ve learned is that I hold my heart. I recognize that when something is painful, when I’m feeling hurt or lonely or whatever’s happening, it actually hurts my heart. And I put my hand over my heart and just kind of hold myself. And that kind of cradle of lovingkindness, that acceptance of, man, you’re supported you’re right here. Oh, that hurts.

Sonya Feher [00:35:38]:

And when somebody else tells me something painful too, I hold my heart for them. I feel that being able to feel our hearts so that it’s not we’re just walking through the world thinking we’re supposed to be perfect. That’s not humanity. We’re not perfect, and we don’t actually know what’s supposed to happen. Like, yeah, maybe you get in the fender bender on the way to wherever. Right? Because it’s not all an easy to clean up spill, necessarily. Those aren’t just the mistakes that we make. There are much, much bigger ones.

Sonya Feher [00:36:15]:

And how do you forgive yourself and get through those too? And how do you recognize for me, that piece, when somebody gave me the advice when my kid was little, about when they’re crying or they’re screaming or they’re throwing a tantrum or whining or whatever is happening, it’s indicative of an unmet need.

Amanda Krill [00:36:38]:


Sonya Feher [00:36:39]:

And so if we can look at ourselves at like, okay, yeah, I did this thing. I yelled or I hurt somebody or I broke something big, really big, physical or emotional or otherwise, what was happening, what need wasn’t being met for me? Why did I need that? Why did I do that? I was meeting some need I had. And it’s not that we always meet them so skillfully or healthily, those needs.

Amanda Krill [00:37:10]:

Very true.

Sonya Feher [00:37:10]:

But it doesn’t mean that the need is not valid.

Amanda Krill [00:37:14]:

Right. Goodness. You always every conversation that I have with you, I feel like, just is amazing. Like, you are brilliant, and I am so glad that we had this chat today. So thank you.

Sonya Feher [00:37:32]:

Me too. It was really so good to connect with you again. I’m excited about this new project of yours. This is big.

Amanda Krill [00:37:38]:

Thanks. Now, where can I send people for mean? You got Facebook group. Where else can I send people?

Sonya Feher [00:37:45]:

Well, people can find me. My website is spacewise, but they can find Sonia Fahair on TikTok. I just started, which has been kind of fun. And I’m on Facebook and Instagram, and the things that I’m doing these days, part of what happened is I started out my business doing home organizing, and what happened is really we organized our home and they realized, oh, no, I still don’t feel like I’ve got enough right. Or there’s all this clutter still in my schedule or whatever. And so my work has really evolved to be coaching women, helping them organize their lives. Because when we think, like, if only I were more organized, I would be happier. It’s not, oh, if only my house were clean.

Sonya Feher [00:38:39]:

If I didn’t scroll on the phone for hours and hours and feel bad that I didn’t get something done or if I had a different schedule or I spent my money differently or whatever. And all of it is, again about that how do we meet our needs piece. So I have a whole bunch of things that I help people do with that, with organizing and coaching, and I work with women, so I hope women can find me. And that group I mentioned, the Women Learning how to be Happy group on Facebook is free and open to anybody, so send people there too.

Amanda Krill [00:39:15]:

It’s wonderful. I love always I don’t always answer the prompts, but that’s more ADHD related than anything else.

Sonya Feher [00:39:21]:

I don’t always answer them either, but it’s so much fun to look at those conversations. And we’ve had women in that group recently talking about losing parents or nursing parents and about wanting to leave their marriages or about wanting to switch careers or whatever. Like the kind of vulnerability that can happen in a community of women and the kind of shared strength that comes up to support people. I just feel so lucky to get to be part of that kind of a community. And you’re creating that kind of a community, too.

Amanda Krill [00:40:01]:

I hope to be, yeah. One of the things that I have really enjoyed about getting I’ll be 47 in a couple of months. And I think the older that women get, the less we buy into the whole thing about competing with each other, that we have been sold our whole lives and actually figure out, like, only we understand what we’re going through. So we really need each other really badly.

Sonya Feher [00:40:29]:

Well, I am so glad to be able to talk to you again, too, and kind of catch up on this part of your journey.

Amanda Krill [00:40:39]:

Thanks so much for joining me. Thank you for listening to the she Owns podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about what she Owns is all about, head over to Whether you’re needing support around your business or your life, we’ve got you covered. Our all in One Business suite gives you all the tools you need to run an online business. And she Owns her Life is a year long program aligned to the seasons to help us return to a natural rhythm, reclaim our wild power by rediscovering who we are and relearn how to be our strong, independent selves in a world that wants us to conform. Head over to and learn more.

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