Karina Blackheart: Dancing with Your Big Crone Energy on the Path to Self-Worth

Welcome back to another episode of “She Owns”! In today’s empowering discussion, our fearless host, Amanda Krill, sits down with the incredible Karina Blackheart, also known as the Crone, to delve deep into the power of self-worth and embracing our true selves.

Amanda begins by sharing her own journey of self-discovery and the importance of owning one’s past, present, and future. She reveals a recent encounter with Karina’s website, which she describes as having a powerful energy akin to mythical figures such as Baba Yaga and the Cailleach. Amanda recognizes the vital work being done by Karina and her team, particularly for those who feel lost and are searching for ways to find themselves again.

Drawing upon a previous episode on motherhood, Amanda highlights the universal truth that nobody truly has all the answers. She passionately emphasizes the need for more people like Karina, who can provide guidance and support during challenging times.

Karina Blackheart, the Crone herself, joins the conversation, advocating for living in “big crone energy.” Amanda and Karina dive into the concept of self-worth, discussing their personal experiences and the importance of being our authentic selves. Karina’s wisdom and insights prove to be truly enlightening as they explore the mirror-like relationship between the crone and the child, and the stage of life that holds immense power and liberation.

As the episode unfolds, our attention is captured by the thought-provoking revelations shared by Amanda and Karina. We uncover the significance of embracing our multifaceted identities and challenging societal expectations. Karina shares her website, podcast, and monthly membership that provides resources and rituals for self-transformation, reminding us that this knowledge should not be a secret.

Together, Amanda and Karina introduce us to the transformative power of embracing our “big crone energy” and taking ownership of our lives. Join us in this insightful conversation as we venture into the depths of self-worth and emerge with a newfound sense of liberation and empowerment. Let’s dive in!

Karina Blackheart, THE CRONE HERSELF is a Women’s Leadership and Whole Life Evolution Priestess. Her spiritual imperative is to live exactly as she desires while guiding others to liberate their own truth, purpose and power.

Using effective spiritual inquiry and practices, She guides women of all ages to take ownership and responsibility for the fullness of their personal, spiritual, and collective power. She creates kind and courageous containers for women who are ready to engage in reclamation of their Divine Selves, so they can choose to live more fully, unapologetically, and creatively–embodying and expressing their brilliance and wisdom with dignity and strength. By accepting self-authority, healing our internalized cultural oppressions, and practicing radical self-love, we become unstoppable. We become dangerous women–we embody Big Crone Energy.

The Transcripts

Amanda Krill [00:00:13]:

Hey there. This is Amanda from she Owns, and you’re listening to the she Owns podcast, the show that helps you own your past, your present and your future for people who want to live their lives in a more intentional way. Today we’re talking about self worth with Karina Blackheart, the Crone herself, an advocate for all of us to live in our big crone energy. Thank you so much for joining me. If you want to talk a little bit about what you do, it’s amazing. And I literally just ordered something from your website ten minutes ago. So first tell me what you do and then we’ll get into the chat about self worth.

Karina Blackheart [00:00:47]:

So my name is Karina Blackheart. My business name is The Crone herself. So what I do is work with women across age. Just because Crone is in the title. I want to be really clear that this work is not just for women of age. In fact, what I’m trying to do is to help women who are younger recognize and embody some of the energies, concepts, attitudes that come with age. Right? I’m hoping that people in their twenty s thirty s forty s don’t have to wait right. Until menopause and the hormonal changes and the sort of long initiatory process of becoming postmenopausal causes some changes in our personalities.

Karina Blackheart [00:01:53]:

And those changes are about self worth. They’re about how we manage our time, what we allow in our energy field boundaries. Right? And sort of an attitude of like, I can do what I want. Right. I can choose what’s best for me. And I think that there’s something about my age right, and just life experience that lands you in this place. But there’s something that I call big Crone Energy, which I love so much. Well, it’s a play on big energy.

Amanda Krill [00:02:49]:


Karina Blackheart [00:02:50]:


Amanda Krill [00:02:50]:

And it’s perfect. It’s brilliant.

Karina Blackheart [00:02:53]:

It’s so much fun. And I want people to understand that that energy is available to all of us all the time. Right. It’s just big energy. It’s just stepping into who you are. And that doesn’t mean you have to be a big extrovert, right? It means that you have to own your power, that you have to value yourself first. I always tell people, if your well is empty, if your cup is empty, then whatever we’re trying to pour into other people, whatever accommodations we’re making for other people, they’re not our best. Right? If we want to give our best, if we want to share our best energy, we have to be in it.

Karina Blackheart [00:03:55]:

Right. We have to be full. So there’s something really beautiful and surprising about being a woman who’s I’m 58. I’ll be 59 in a couple of months. I’m in my second Saturn return. People don’t even know that that’s a thing, right?

Amanda Krill [00:04:16]:


Karina Blackheart [00:04:17]:

So second Saturn return, things are in flux. I’m not scared this time. I’m like, oh, an adventure. Right? I wonder who I’ll be on the other side of this. And when I started the crone herself, I thought that I had already I didn’t check the astrology. I just assumed because of how I was feeling, that I must have already come out the other side of that, because I feel very different than I did at even 55. So I’m a longtime priestess. I have been teaching a very closed private system of magic for many years, and I just wanted to move my work to a more public sphere.

Karina Blackheart [00:05:16]:

I thought 30 years of teaching magic and helping people transform their lives using these principles should not be a secret, especially where we are as a culture now. Right. So I’m not teaching people that tradition, but certainly tools, practices, and a worldview maybe that comes out of that tradition that really says that when we’re healthy, we make everything else around us healthy. Right. There’s a metaphor of a clear sounding bell, right? If you set up a bunch of metal singing bowls and one is a little off key, like, sometimes they get a little warped, right. And you ring that and you can hear like, that’s a little irritating. Right. And then you play one next to it, that’s clear.

Karina Blackheart [00:06:22]:

It brings the warped one’s resonance into clarity. So the clear sounding bell creates resonance even where there is dissonance around us. So the goal here is to be in our power, in our self worth, in our own alignment, and making choices that are healthy for us, and that that resonance changes our environment and it changes the people we come in contact with. It changes culture. Right?

Amanda Krill [00:07:04]:


Karina Blackheart [00:07:04]:

So there’s really three strands to my work. One is personal development. Right. Do your personal work. One is spiritual evolution. Right. That doesn’t bypass. And the third is understanding that when we shift, everything around us shifts.

Karina Blackheart [00:07:23]:

And that can feel scary, right?

Amanda Krill [00:07:26]:

Yeah, definitely. I love what you’re doing in the world, and what you just said reminds me so much of I raised my children to be very sure of themselves, be very self assured, know what they’re worth and value themselves, but didn’t always practice that for myself and didn’t realize it until my oldest son was about twelve or 13. And he was like, I’m trying to figure out who I am and I can’t do it because you aren’t being fully you. So if you could just show up as you, then maybe I can figure out who I am. And I’m just like, oh, shoot. How are you so insightful that you can see that? Because it was fully accurate, but it really altered the way that I decided to show up after that, because I was like, you’re right, I’m not. I’m watering myself down to make everybody else around me comfortable, and it’s not serving me, and it’s definitely not helping my kids be who they need to be. So that the sound bowl thing.

Amanda Krill [00:08:31]:

Just like I was a little off and needed somebody to know.

Karina Blackheart [00:08:35]:

When we’re watering ourselves down, we’re also not helping the people around us that we think that we’re trying to help. Right, exactly. As people who are teachers, leaders, guides, healers, if we are suppressing, we can’t be fully present. And there’s something in us that’s dissonant. Right, exactly. People on a gut level, on an instinctual, intuitive level, can’t trust us 100% because they know we are not being 100% honest with ourselves or them.

Amanda Krill [00:09:18]:


Karina Blackheart [00:09:19]:

It’s immense.

Amanda Krill [00:09:21]:

Yeah, it is. Yeah. You mentioned that you’re in your Saturn return and I just got out of my reverse nodal return okay. Which was a nightmare. It was like, do you know Teresa Reed, the Tarot lady?

Karina Blackheart [00:09:37]:

I don’t.

Amanda Krill [00:09:38]:

You should know her. She is a wonderful human being. And she noted that I was entering that, and she’s like, I need to warn you, this is not going to be a good year for you. It is going to be rough and it’ll be an adventure, basically, but just be ready for what’s coming. And it was so much worse than she could have ever warned me about. But I’m on the other side of it and I feel like I’m okay. Life is fine now, but it was an intense time that really made me realize where I’m not showing up really well. And it was also during that year that I read Women Who Run with the Wolves, right?

Karina Blackheart [00:10:21]:

Oh, I love her.

Amanda Krill [00:10:24]:

Yeah, well, I had tried to read it so many times and I just couldn’t get through it. And I feel like it’s the kind of book that you have to be at a certain spot in your life before it makes sense to you. But your website feels so much like Baba Yaga or the Kaliak or whatever. But that’s exactly the energy you’re putting out there. And it is so needed and so necessary because there are so many of us who are just lost and have no idea how to find ourselves again. So the work you’re doing is so wonderful and so necessary and actually ties back into the podcast interview I just did earlier this morning where you’re talking about motherhood and how we have no idea what we’re doing. None of us know what we’re doing. An older woman gave my other guest a piece of advice of just letting your child lead, and I was like, why aren’t there people like you telling us where we just chill out, it’s going to be okay, and just, like, helping us through all of these things.

Amanda Krill [00:11:24]:

So I’m so glad you’re here and I’m so glad that you’re in the world doing the work that you’re doing because it is really necessary. And I am in my very beginnings of the menopausal stages, so I have no idea what I’m doing or what’s going on in my life right now.

Karina Blackheart [00:11:40]:

This is the thing, right? Like, women are walking around going, I have no idea. I have no idea what’s happening to me. I’m doing the things that I was told that I’m supposed to do. Right? I have kids, I have a partner, or I left my partner, or I don’t have any of that. And I’m working at my job. My body is changing. I have no idea. And we walk around, I think, from the time we’re like nine, right?

Amanda Krill [00:12:11]:


Karina Blackheart [00:12:11]:

Saying, I don’t know what’s happening. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing. And the culture is more than happy to tell us who we are, who we’re supposed to be, how we’re supposed to feel, how we’re supposed to show up. I call it the Good Girl Manual. Right? I’m going to writing a book on the Good Girl Manual. But all of the messaging requires us to comply, right? You’re supposed to look like this. You’re supposed to behave like this. These are the things that you’re supposed to want in life.

Karina Blackheart [00:12:54]:

And we know nothing about. When we head into puberty, we might know something about it, right. Hopefully we’re raising our daughters differently now so that they know a lot about it. Right. When I was eleven or so, one of my elder sisters, just like 20 years older than me, had a copy of a book called Our Bodies Ourselves. It was a radical feminist book teaching women who were much older than eleven about their bodies and what their bodies looked like and what their bodies smelled like, and how to take care of themselves and what menopause was going to be like. And I poured over this book. I studied this book, and my mom, who was two generations older than me, right, found this book under my bed and lost it.

Karina Blackheart [00:13:57]:

Right. I think she called it pornography, right. Because there were pictures of naked women in it. Right. But it wasn’t sexualized. It was just women’s bodies. She was just beside herself that I had been looking at this pornographic book. But what it did was gave me a real sense of like, my body is okay.

Karina Blackheart [00:14:25]:

And to treat it respectfully, to treat it lovingly menopause is a whole other so I think puberty is an initiation, right?

Amanda Krill [00:14:37]:


Karina Blackheart [00:14:37]:

It’s an initiatory process that is hormonal, physical, cultural. And we come out of puberty right into adulthood sort of being like, oh, okay, this is what’s going to happen. This is what my body’s going to do. This is how I feel now. This is who I am now. Takes until we’re about 27, 28, 29, they say, now that our brains aren’t finished developing, until guess what? When we hit our Saturn return so much later than we think, right? So much later than we think. And I’m so glad I have a 27 year old non binary person who menstruates. And they love that.

Karina Blackheart [00:15:33]:

They know my brain is still developing. It’s okay that I don’t know exactly who I am or what I’m supposed to be doing or where I’m supposed to be. And I haven’t locked myself into something yet. Right. And I think in these times, locking ourselves in is a detriment.

Amanda Krill [00:16:02]:


Karina Blackheart [00:16:04]:

Because we’re in such collectively, in such a crazy, transitional, crisis ridden time. I won’t go off on that tangent. I’m sort of putting that box over here. But I want to recognize that we’re all in this time of great change, of great turning. When we come to menopause, we also don’t know what the hell is happening. Right. We ask our friends, they tell us what they’re experiencing. We go to the doctor.

Karina Blackheart [00:16:44]:

I remember going to the doctor at like 41 and being like, I think I’m hemorrhaging, right? I’m having hot flashes, blah, blah, blah. And he looked at me and he said, you’re too young.

Amanda Krill [00:17:01]:


Karina Blackheart [00:17:03]:

You’re too young to be in menopause. And I said, But I’m having menopausal symptoms. And so he checked my thyroid, right. I went back the next year and I said, my symptoms from last year have not decreased. I am in menopause. And he said, no, you’re just too young. And I said, Would you please check my hormone levels? And we got the levels back. And he said, well, you’re right on the edge.

Karina Blackheart [00:17:34]:

Like, if you miss a period for a year, then you’re officially in menopause. And I said, well, it’s been eleven months, right. My twelve year old had her first period the next month and I had my last one with her. It was like all of her hormones triggered mine. I’m not a doctor, right. And every woman is going to go through this thing differently. Our bodies are different, our expectations are different. This happens to people at different times.

Karina Blackheart [00:18:18]:

I know women my age who have not started menopause yet. I finished it like, by the time I was 51, I still have an occasional hot flash, but my mood and my hormones have evened out. So menopause is also an initiatory process, right. So we go through this adolescent shift and then we have these years where we’re fertile, right. If we choose to have children or not, in magical, pagan, earth centered spaces, we say, well, maiden, mother and crone. Right. So the initiation to motherhood is your pregnancy. And then the whole time you have kids.

Karina Blackheart [00:19:17]:

Right. My kids are 27 and 23. They are still teaching me. I’m still learning from them. They are my most exacting teachers. Right, like your kid was when they called you out on not being your full 100% authentic self, right?

Amanda Krill [00:19:36]:


Karina Blackheart [00:19:38]:

They point stuff out to us. That is shocking, right. What they know, these generations that are younger just blow me away. What they know. And then comes menopause. And again, we don’t think about it as initiatory, right? Like, this is a long process. What’s happening is there are physical changes, there are hormonal changes, there are energetic changes, and there are personality changes. Right.

Karina Blackheart [00:20:12]:

And we come out the other side of it different than we went in. Just like that time when we were adolescents and teenagers, and there’s some mirroring there, right? When I think of my teenagers, there’s this rebellious streak. There’s this I’m not going to listen to you. I’m not going to do whatever I want. I’m going to wear whatever I want, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they’re just struggling to be like, who am I in this time where they have no idea and won’t for a while? Something happens during menopause. I’m going to swear just once, free. Okay, much as you want.

Karina Blackheart [00:21:02]:

So there’s this time that women start you start hearing women say, like, sometime in their 40s, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it, and fuck you and fuck that. And they’re really angry, right?

Amanda Krill [00:21:24]:

Yeah. I feel that.

Karina Blackheart [00:21:24]:

Like, PMS on steroids. That doesn’t stop, right? And then there’s a shift, and they start saying, you know what? I have no more fucks to give. Not one. My last fuck is buried in the field. I’m all done. I have no more. And there’s an edge to it, right? Like, I am all done giving a fuck. And then we just stopped talking about it.

Karina Blackheart [00:21:59]:

We just don’t care anymore about nonsense, about drama, about people who don’t respect us, systems that don’t respect us, right. Workplaces that don’t respect us. Something happens within us where we access this deep well of self worth and self respect. And while we’re growing into that, there is this no, I’m not. I’m not going to do that. And it’s a lot like teenagehood it really is.

Amanda Krill [00:22:38]:

Speaking from the middle of it. It really is.

Karina Blackheart [00:22:42]:

And you’re like, who am I? Why am I so angry? And why am I sweating? Yes. The sweating, the hot flashes are something. I just want to talk about these things so that people don’t think that you’re going crazy or that menopause is making you crazy. Like, these are parts of it. The mood swing that doesn’t even swing. You’re just angry for a while, right? When men go through their midlife cris, what, they get a younger woman or they get a Corvette or something, and women just are like, I will kill you. Right?

Amanda Krill [00:23:36]:


Karina Blackheart [00:23:40]:

So crone these stages of our life, this child maiden mother crone, we tend to think of them as really distinct, separate phases, right? I’m still a child, right?

Amanda Krill [00:24:11]:


Karina Blackheart [00:24:12]:

There’s a part of me that is more playful than I have been since I’m a child, because I’m free of all of that. Whatever it is that we expect of mothers, right, that age and how we’re supposed to behave and what we’re supposed to want and how we’re supposed to be there for others. The crone is also in the child, right? The child will look at you and tell you what’s true, right? With no hesitation, with no self consciousness, with no concern for how you’re going to receive that. Right. They just tell you the truth. So the crone and the child are mirrors of each other. Right. We just talked about how the mirror between sort of teenage hood, right, adolescence, pubescence and menopause are mirrors for each other.

Karina Blackheart [00:25:19]:

But that mirror comes out to the farther edges, and the older we get, the more childlike we get. And the child is also wise, honest, and unself conscious. I love the fashionista. Women. Right. It’s not my thing. It’s not what I want to do. I don’t have the patience to get all dressed today.

Karina Blackheart [00:25:52]:

I put on makeup because I thought we were going to be on video. And I never wear makeup. I’m just comfortable and comfortable in my own skin. Right. But I love the fashionistas because what they’re doing is being really playful. Right?

Amanda Krill [00:26:10]:


Karina Blackheart [00:26:11]:

The bright, bright colors and the giant hats and the crazy patterns. Right. And it’s the same as if you let a toddler pick out their clothes.

Amanda Krill [00:26:21]:

Yeah, it really is. That’s hilarious.

Karina Blackheart [00:26:25]:

I want to wear it in this. I want to wear all the things in all the patterns and all of the colors. And so there’s that mirror again I want to talk about. Go ahead.

Amanda Krill [00:26:43]:

Speaking of just the Fashion Week thing, did you see the thing with Pamela Anderson where she showed up in Paris at Fashion Week with no makeup on and no anything?

Karina Blackheart [00:26:54]:

Yeah. And then Jamie Lee Curtis came out. Yeah. And know, this is the new trend. And I was like, this is the.

Amanda Krill [00:27:04]:

Trend we’ve all been. But but I was just so proud of her because I think that’s the first time that I’ve ever felt like Pamela Anderson was just a normal person and know, showing up like all of us and just not worrying anymore and literally giving no fucks about what anybody thought or said. And I loved it so much. So sorry to interrupt you, but go on with your thought.

Karina Blackheart [00:27:28]:

No, I’m beautiful whether I’m wearing eight pounds of makeup or naked face.

Amanda Krill [00:27:37]:


Karina Blackheart [00:27:38]:

Right. So the makeup is a thing. Right. It’s never been my thing.

Amanda Krill [00:27:47]:


Karina Blackheart [00:27:50]:

But for someone who we have only ever seen in full face theatrical makeup to come out naked faced right. Is newsworthy. Right. And yet, everywhere I go, I see women with naked faces. Right. And I don’t look twice. I don’t think twice about it where I live. I look and think twice when I see someone in full face makeup.

Karina Blackheart [00:28:21]:

It’s unusual. Where I live. I know if I go to other places in the country, it’s not unusual. Right. Same for where I live.

Amanda Krill [00:28:32]:

So I’m sorry to interrupt your thought.

Karina Blackheart [00:28:34]:

Oh, no.

Amanda Krill [00:28:35]:

Wanted to mention that.

Karina Blackheart [00:28:36]:

No. I was sort of like, what are we doing? Where did I go? Because I come with an index card of notes. So as the crone herself, what I’m doing is offering there are lots of points of entry to working with me or engaging with what I do. I do a podcast supposedly every three weeks, although I missed the last one. So there’s a podcast, I have a blog, I’m on Substack, I’m on Medium, I am on social media, on Facebook mostly a lot. I am not yet doing a lot of video just because it’s a learning curve.

Amanda Krill [00:29:30]:

I think TikTok needs you, honestly.

Karina Blackheart [00:29:33]:

That’s what I keep hearing. But I’m inundated with what’s on my plate right now, believe me. Everybody I know is like, you have got to do reels, you’ve got to be on TikTok, you’ve got to be on Insta. And I’m like, I’m just writing right now. Okay, yeah, I’m just writing right now. Excuse me for 1 second. Can you hear me? Okay, now I can’t hear you.

Amanda Krill [00:30:10]:

What did I do? There we are.

Karina Blackheart [00:30:13]:

Okay, sorry about that.

Amanda Krill [00:30:15]:

No worries.

Karina Blackheart [00:30:18]:

So those are sort of ways where you can find me, right? As the crone herself. My website is thecronherself.com the podcast is the big Crone energy podcast. You can find it everywhere, but if you just are trying to find it fast, you can just go to my website and find it the next level of and get on my email list, of course. And that way you don’t miss any of these things that I’m doing. I have a monthly membership, and in that membership we are meeting once a month just for chat. It’s called circle chat. And then we meet for rituals of release during the dark moon waning phase of the moon. And then we do a meeting for rituals of increase as the moon is waxing toward full.

Karina Blackheart [00:31:21]:

And then other membership benefits have things like discounts for my shop that’s on my website. Or sometimes I get the crones that I work with, like the archetypes ancestors, old goddesses. They just come in and they’re like say this to the people. And so I just open my mouth and that gets recorded. And that’s available to folks in the membership. The membership is called the conspiracy of Crohn’s. I love it so much. And to conspire means to breathe together, right? We think conspiracy and we think creepy.

Amanda Krill [00:32:09]:

Has gotten a bad rap recently.

Karina Blackheart [00:32:11]:

World domination, right? But to conspire, really, if you look at the etymology of the word, it means to breathe together. And so we’re conspiring there for our own well being and for solidarity with other people who are doing this deep work and understanding that the work that we do on ourselves and together changes culture, right? Elevates culture. The next course that I have coming up is it’s a big one? It’s a big deal. It starts in November and goes till July. We meet for five weeks at a time and then we take five weeks off to integrate, to rest, and to prepare for the next part. It’s called provocations. I name it that because once upon a time, someone called me not nicely not as a compliment, a provocateur. And I thought, I love that.

Karina Blackheart [00:33:18]:

I love that. That’s a really apt description of how I operate. I sort of poke at the places that we miss, right. I sort of find the piece that’s a little off and highlight that, right. And say, have we thought about how we’re using this language? Have we thought about how we’re not talking about menopause? Have we thought about how older women have a lifetime of wisdom, knowledge, experience, and we’re utterly invisible and silenced, right?

Amanda Krill [00:34:02]:


Karina Blackheart [00:34:04]:

So provocations is an opportunity for us all to become provocative, right? It begins with invoke, where we call upon the ancient goddesses, our ancestral grandmothers, like the ones we know, but the ones that we’ll never, never know, right. And we also work with those archetypal crones, the Baba Yaga, right? The evil stepmother, right? The bad witch in the woods who’s going to put children in the oven, right? Like, what’s going on with those stories? How do we go from revering the feminine right, and the wise agent feminine to these green skinned, warty nosed, hunched over evil old women, right, as the stereotype. So a little history lesson, a little magic of calling them in to guide us and to guard us and protect us and bless us and heal us. And then we go on to evoke, which is to call forth these qualities and quantities from within us and start to learn to walk with them in ways that are healthy and nourishing. And elevating then, is provoke, right? When we make these changes, we’re going to get a little provocative. People around us might be bonding, like, what’s going on with you, right, and learning how to there’s a kind of witch who calls themselves a hedge witch, right? And I’m not going to go all into it, but there’s something there about riding the hedge or riding the ridge or the edges of things. And so in provoke, we’re really looking at how do I hold my power, my value, my self worth, my wisdom, the heart of my heart, the soul of my soul, and be in relationship with other human beings, right. It’s a nice edge.

Karina Blackheart [00:36:45]:

Right. So learning to walk that with some kind of dignity and integrity and grace both for ourselves and for other people who might not be quite ready for us when we start exuding our own big crone energy. Yeah. Then we go on to Initiate, which actually has a ceremony, and then we go on to a place after that called Integrate, which is really important to take these to understand that when we go through a huge growth process, like this program will evoke in you that we need support. Right. We need to be near other people who have been through that process, hopefully within the container, within the circle that we make for this work that everyone involved learns to respect one another. Right? I’m not going to say, oh, we’re going to love each other, we’re creating a sisterhood, we’re blah, blah, blah. We don’t know that that’s going to happen.

Karina Blackheart [00:38:07]:

Some of us, that language is really off putting, right? What I’m looking for is a sense of solidarity, right, of like, there are other people out there who have done this work. I can lean into that container when I want to. I can be present for others who need to be upheld when I’m available. Right. So that period of integration is just an understanding that we’re not in this alone and that we still might be a little wobly. We still might have our days where we give over our power or we let somebody talk to us in a tone that is not acceptable. So that’s what’s happening for me right now. That program begins in November, I think we go November to, like, mid December, and then we take a break.

Karina Blackheart [00:39:04]:

We come back in the end of January. So we’re on five weeks off. Five weeks. Because I want to honor people’s rhythms. I want to honor that. We don’t overfill the cup, right? We don’t just stuff so much stuff in you so quickly that you’re inundated with information and you have no time to practice it, to rest with it, to sit with it, to question it. So over many years of teaching these kinds of really transformational processes, the break time every bit as important as the in the container time.

Amanda Krill [00:39:48]:

Yeah, right. That makes sense. That’s brilliant. Absolutely brilliant program.

Karina Blackheart [00:39:54]:

Thank you.

Amanda Krill [00:39:55]:

Yeah, love that. And I will say that not intuitively, but my gut reaction to the idea of being a Crone is like, ugh, I don’t want to be that, but it’s the most liberating time of being alive is really when you have that big crone energy. You are just, I don’t care. I’m going to do what I want and I don’t care what anybody else thinks about it. And I love that so much. It’s so empowering. And I was just thinking, like, as you were talking there at the beginning about fairy tales and warts and all of those things that were told that Crohn’s are like is I wonder how much of that is just whoever wrote the stories. And I won’t say what gender they are, but I think they are not Crohn’s, but really they know and understand the power that women in that stage have.

Amanda Krill [00:40:45]:

And the only way to diminish it is by making it seem undesirable. And you don’t want people to think of you like that, but that’s not true at all. It’s the complete opposite of we look.

Karina Blackheart [00:41:01]:

At the stories about women, goddesses, princesses, queens, victims that are in the cultural inheritance that we get, and we start to get indoctrinated into these stories when we’re very young, right? Like, look at Disney, right? They all have the Evil queen, right? The baddies. Right? I was talking with a friend of. Mine who’s a few years older than me, just a couple of years older than me. And I was so excited because this whole idea sort of came to me, right? Like, oh, what am I doing? All I can be is myself. I have all of this time as a priestess, as a teacher, as a healer, as a culture changer, as a writer. And I thought, I want to not compartmentalize any part of me and be like, this is the thing that I do. Right? The crone herself allows me to be like, today I’m off on a political tangent. Tomorrow I’m talking about your spiritual nature, right? The next day, I’m ranting about the Good girl manual.

Karina Blackheart [00:42:32]:

The next day, I’m telling you to buy yourself flowers, right? I don’t have to stay within these rails, these guardrails. I get to be my whole self. And isn’t that what being the crone is? Isn’t that what we all want, is to be our whole selves? But I said the language to my friend, and she recoiled, right? Like, physically, it was like, you’re not a crone. And I just let her go, and she said, I’m not a crone. You don’t get to be a crone. You’re not a crone until you’re, like, 80. Crohn’s are like old women. And I said, no, like, second Saturn return, like, 56 to 60 years old.

Karina Blackheart [00:43:25]:

That’s actually a crone. Post menopause is Cronehood, right?

Amanda Krill [00:43:30]:

Thank God we don’t have to wait till we’re 80 to finally stop caring, right?

Karina Blackheart [00:43:35]:

I’m going to be so tired by then, right? Like, this time when I feel the most liberated I’ve ever been. And yeah, my energy isn’t what it was like when I was 40 or 30. It’s not. I get tired, but I also can say I’m tired. I’m not doing that.

Amanda Krill [00:43:58]:

Exactly. Yeah, right. That permission is so important. I’m tired. I don’t want to do it.

Karina Blackheart [00:44:07]:

Or I’m going to buy myself flowers, right. I’m going to take a long bath because I want to. Because I can. Right? Certainly this work isn’t just about baths and roses, right? I think I was writing about this yesterday. That’s lovely. Right. But real self care is being so loving, so gentle, so forgiving, so compassionate toward ourselves. Right? I was having a really hard day.

Karina Blackheart [00:44:55]:

I don’t know, a few days ago, there was just a lot going on. I was stressed out, and I went out. I have the privilege. A friend of mine bought me a hot tub. That’s it. I’m going to go soak in the hot tub. And I came in, and my kid heard me. My kid, who’s 23, still lives here.

Karina Blackheart [00:45:19]:

Welcome to live here as long as they want and need. Heard me, like, muttering in my room, and they kind of peeked their head in and they said, Are you okay? And I said, oh, yeah. I’m not muttering like I was 2 hours ago. I’m, like, just saying, like, hot tub, cold night air, bowl of stars, incense in my room, low lighting, warm pajamas, and their face lit up. They were like, oh, I’m so happy that you’re so happy. Right. And I think that there’s something just about naming what’s working right now.

Amanda Krill [00:46:07]:


Karina Blackheart [00:46:09]:

We do a lot of sort of self evaluation around what’s broken, what needs healing, what needs fixing, what needs adjusting, what I have to work on. Right. I want to say that that has something to do with capitalism and our work ethic, but it keeps us in a cycle of not enoughness about ourselves that we’re never okay.

Amanda Krill [00:46:45]:


Karina Blackheart [00:46:48]:

That isn’t to say that I don’t still have work to do, putting that in air quotes that I am still not examining some pieces of myself that are stuck somewhere. But I want women to be gentler with ourselves. We don’t have to wait until we’re perfect before we’re worthy of our own self love, our own self regard, of the kind of care that we generously give others and the affirmation that we generously give our children and our beloved, even in our quote unquote, brokenness even in our places of my trauma isn’t healed yet. My, that isn’t healed yet. My, that’s not fixed yet. If we can just, like, hand on heart, really take a breath and allow our heart to open for ourselves. Yeah, that’s big energy. Big crone energy, too, right? I love it when we weep for the parts of ourselves that have been wounded and traumatized and broken.

Karina Blackheart [00:48:28]:

That’s big crone energy, too, right? Nothing is outside of that container. Yeah.

Amanda Krill [00:48:40]:

Thank you so much for joining me today. This has been the best chat. I cannot wait to get this out so people can hear this. Yeah. You’re wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here.

Karina Blackheart [00:48:53]:

Thank you so much for having me. I love that I’m just meeting all of these people and talking on all of these podcasts. It’s a blast. And sometimes I’m like, now go be quiet, will you?

Amanda Krill [00:49:09]:

Well, every single time I have something like this scheduled, I’m always like, I just don’t have the energy for this today. I can’t do this today. And I get in my head and everything, but then I do it, and it’s so energizing and so wonderful, and I am so glad that we talked today.

Karina Blackheart [00:49:26]:

Me too. Thank you so much for having me. It’s really been a pleasure, and I’m so honored to be here and have an opportunity to talk to your listeners.

Amanda Krill [00:49:36]:

Yeah. Thanks so much. Yeah, thank you for listening to the she Owns podcast. If you’re interested in learning more about what she Owns is all about, head over to sheowns.org. Whether you’re needing support around your business or your life, we’ve got you covered. Our all in One business suite gives you all the tools you need to run an online business. And she Owns her Life is a year long program aligned to the seasons to help us return to a natural rhythm, reclaim our wild power by rediscovering who we are and relearn how to be our strong, independent selves in a world that wants us to conform. Head over to she owned.org and learn more.

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